What Do You Think of "Drugged Driving" Laws?

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To be differentiated from actually driving under the influence, Congress is pushing for states to start forcing drivers to take blood tests for the presence of drugs (some of which can stay in one's system for over 30 days) and hold drivers liable for any positive results, even if it i a trace amount.

From morons.org:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>


Are Vague Zero-Tolerance "Drugged Driving" Laws Over-Stepping Their Bounds?

The US Congress is considering zero-tolerance legislation giving police officers the right to require drivers to submit to blood testing if they are suspected of driving under the influence of illegal drugs. Penalties for states failing to adopt this legislation would be a 2% loss per year up to a max of 8% in federal highway funding. (Note the first link is a little outdated -- the legislation, included in the transportation bill, HR 3550, has already been passed by the House.)

There are already similar laws in nine states (Arizona, Georgia, Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, Minnesota, Rhode island, Utah, and Wisconsin) making it a criminal offense to drive with any detectable trace of an illegal substance in your system with convictions resulting in punishments as severe as drunk driving. Refusing to take the test (at least under Wisconsin law) results in the automatic loss of the driver's liscense.

The Wisconsin version of the "drugged driving" law is already being contested in a handful of cases based on the lack of any defined standard pertaining to impairment. Lawyers argue that with many drugs, like marijuana and cocaine, traces remain in bodily fluids long after any noticeable physical and mental effects have passed. Without precise levels to define a driver as impaired, it is impossible to prove the driver's perceived impairment is the result of drugs detected in his/her system.

Another concern lies in trusting officers of the law not to abuse the "with cause" portions of the law. Do you need to be driving erratically or is a Phish sticker on your car enough of a cause? There is far too much room for misuse of the law and some even want to remove that stipulation, stating that an ideal situation would allow officers to test with or without cause.

Opponents also argue false-positives are another problem associated with this legislation. As most people already know, eating poppy seeds can often result in a test turning up positive for heroin use, and it is theoretically possible for concert goers to test positive for marijuana use if they are subjected to second-hand smoke from others in attendance. The zero-tolerance nature of these laws infer guilt regardless of the actual situations and leave no room for defense in the case of misleading results. Say bye-bye to your right to due process.

On a final note, most (if not all) states already have DWI laws on the books that cover all intoxicants, legal or otherwise, so the new "drugged driving" laws are little more than a relaxing of the rules to make it easier to convict drug users. The police can currently only arrest drug users if they are in possession of controlled substances, but that technicality is no longer relevant under the new laws. Just what we need -- more drug users filling up our prisons....
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Call me crazy, but isn't requiring people to submit to blood tests for substances latent in their bloodstream which have nothing to do with their current driving situation the last step before just requiring random drug tests to anyone anywhere? Could the federal government finall, after all these years, come up with an even more expensive and ineffective way to fight the War on Drugs?


Phaedrus
 

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On a related note, what do you think about public cameras that are used for video surveillance?

07/13/2001 - Updated 04:58 PM ET
Tampa puts face-recognition system on public street

TAMPA, Fla. (AP) — Visitors to Tampa's crime-ridden Ybor City nightlife district are being watched by cameras that are analyzing their chins, noses and cheekbones with futuristic law enforcement technology that has evoked cries of "Big Brother." The video cameras along Ybor City's streets snap pictures of the faces in the crowd and compare those images to a database of 30,000 people that includes runaway teen-agers and people wanted on criminal charges. Tampa is the only city in America where police use the face-recognition technology for routine surveillance, but it may not be for long. Virginia Beach, Va., is seeking a $150,000 state grant for a similar system. "It'll be worth it if they get the right people," said Virginia Beach shopper Michelle Porter-Loftin. "Makes me wonder. I'd be worried about mistaken identity. We'll see."
 

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A few years ago a Canadian snowboarder was dismissed from the Olympics for having trace amounts of THC (marijuana) in his bloodstream. He claimed that he had not actually smoked anything, but blamed the trace on second-hand marijuana smoke he must have inhaled while at a party where pot was in the air. A friend of mine, a police officer, has also had trace amounts of pot found in his system and was almost suspended for it. He, too, inhaled second-smoke at a party. (I know this guy rather well and he's too 'vanilla' to be a pot smoker.)

Before drug testing at roadsides can be made legal, a non-invasive test must first be derided and a line needs to be drawn that would indicate that the driver is currently high.
 

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Given proposed penalties, charging someone with 'presumed impairment' based solely on 'Blood Drug Content' is absurd.

The best the National Institute of Drug Abuse (NIDA) can do after years of study is demonstrate impairment for pot users 20 minutes after ingestion. Any longer and they are unable to demonstrate impairment.

Now the proposed law is that if you have marijuana metabolites in your system 3 weeks after ingestion, you are 'impaired' and subject to arrest, prosecution and a jail cage.

FUNKMONKEY, that story you posted is three years old.

In actual practice, the cameras ran in Ybor City for six months and then were shut down (allegedly) due to absolutely no criminals being recognized and the fact that it required a full time Tampa police officer (the dude who backed the program in the first place of course) to be on payroll looking at the faces.

Oh wait, let me correct that. They actually DID bust one guy. In a newspaper article about the program, they ran a sample photo of a guy sitting on a bench, and a lady called in to the police and claimed it was her ex-husband, wanted on charges of non-support. Dude was arrested and then found to NOT be the broad's ex.

Back to the other topic...Anti-marijuana zealots have been BEGGING for over 30 years now to find evidence that using pot, even casually at home (or in your basement, as OReilly would allow) endangers the community.

To that end, they have funded literally Millions of dollars in research and studies to try and show how even casual use will produce driving impairment, or workplace impairment sufficient to demonstrate knowing negligence on the part of the user.

They have failed miserably, thus the insane proposal that PHAEDRUS correctly cites above.
 

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Everyone knows legal prescription meds are as good as any at fvckin up the thinking cells of the brain. I propose no drivers licenses should be issued to anyone with a history of taking any medication for illnesses such as asthma, diabettes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol...

I almost got run over one time by a hyperglycemic woman driving a big chevy pickup. It's not right they should drive impaired and put everyone else at risk.
 

Honey Badger Don't Give A Shit
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I feel your pain JP, given that I drive in Florida's most densely populated county on a daily basis for 1-2 hours or more.

But before we implement your suggestion, we must consider the reality.

*Almost 90% of Americans use drugs on a daily basis. Over half of those could reasonably be deemed 'mind-altering'. Thus almost half the drivers on the road MIGHT be suffering some form of impairment based soley on their blood content.

Are we better off taking half the drivers off the road, or do we instead responsibly acknowledge that getting behind the wheel carries risk and therefore if we choose to drive, we do so with knowledge that over 1/2 the drivers may be impaired, so BE FUKKIN CAREFUL.

Also note the 'impairment' that comes from playing radio at high volume, having kids in the car, putting on makeup, reading the paper, eating, talking to someone in the vehicle etc.

My point being, we can't criminalize 'distraction' unless it's clearly defined as being knowingly negligent.

We've done that with blood alcohol content. With almost anything else, it's much much harder to define, so I'd rather we continue the current system, which frankly works pretty damn well and just remind us all to BFC (as noted above).
 

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barman,

All drugs affect all people differently. Whose to say a side effect of Prozac may cause some to commit suicide. Hell, they just may what to take me with them if they were a Muslim!

Fvck that - If you need a drug to live. Don't get behind the wheel.
 

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Already grazing on what some of you have touched upon....I think the drugged driving laws may be of some use when the driver is too impaired to drive,same as the drinking laws...

It would appear though that there is no set standard for intoxication due to drug use, as there is for alcohol...

Zero tolerance in this issue would mean that someone with traces of drugs used 30 days ago would be prosecuted even though he would be perfectly able to function and drive a vehicle...while someone that had drank alcohol and registered a small readout on the breatholyzer and was therefore legal to drive would be cleared, and not prosecuted for dwi...

Where is the standard there?

I think people should be responsible about thier driving and not take the chances that some do when they are intoxicated.....as barman stated there are also a lot of distracted drivers out there.....personally, I'd like to see roll technology installed in cell phones to cut out all this "I can't drive and talk on the cell phone at the same time".....usually given that choice the driver ops for the cell and impedes traffic or creates a hazard....
 

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